complaints about Intercity Direct

  • 20 maart 2018
  • 59 reacties
  • 1502 Bekeken

As pretty much every week train intercity direct from Schiphol to Rotterdam cancelled. Nice to wait the next one and stand when I pay a fortune for 1st class abonnement. This is happening every single week. Thanks NS to keep this pathetic service level, I am happy to travel in third world country while not moving out of NL. Keep it up!
When do you expect this misery to end? If ever?

59 reacties

By the way I think so many people standing and compressed like sardines in a tin box is super dangereous. When that train needs to brake with emergency you can expect to the least many broken bones...
Badge
NS is currently operating test runs for the Intercity Amsterdam - Brussels on the HSL in order to prepare for regular service on that line from 9 April onwards. Due to these tests, a small number of Intercity direct services is now regularly cancelled.
What service had you planned to take? If this is one of the scheduled cancellations, you would've known about said cancellation beforehand if you'd checked the Reisplanner, and NS is not to blame.

Also, the third world-comparison is a bit cheap, don't you agree?
Reputatie 6
Badge +1
The possibility tot run 5 trains per hour from 2019 on is being investigated. At this moment, there are four trains per hour.
@ddietzen I am taking this train twice a day and fully aware of the PLANNED cancellations thank you. I am talking about the mess of having constantly technical faillures. I know the reasons behind (Fyra issue and using wrong trains as a result)
The third world comparaison is provocative indeed
However we are talking about running a 26 min service between Rotterdam and Schiphol at a mere 160 km/h
French or Spanish are running their high speed trains at twice this speed with a much higher reliability
I do not start with Japan and so on
So for a rich country like the Netherlands is I am sorry but It is pathetic not to be able to do 60km at 160 km/h, we are not talking about sending someone on the moon are we?
My other point was that it is dangereous to have so many people standing in a 160km/h train. Trains so full I can not even enter (while I pay 1st class). That looks pretty much like Indian trains and should not happen in the Netherlands.
Reputatie 7
New trains specifically designed for this line are ordered. Due to European law, this has te be a public tender. That's why it takes a long time before the correct trains are running on this line. The ICNG (name of the train) is currently being designed, built and tested. They are supposed to be running in 2021.
Only 3 years to wait and be constantly late then :-)
By the way what prevents to have a wifi connection in these trains? Out of 26 min there is 3 times no network access so no way to keep working or stream music or have a call without being constantly disconnected
It is possible in planes so why not on that train?
Any chance to get this before 2021?
Reputatie 7
There is no wifi in these trains, and it will not be built in anymore. The reason you can't connect to the phone network is because of the tunnels. The current plan is to start boosting the signal in the tunnels in 2019.

If there is even WiFi on a plane, most of the time it's very expensive. WiFi on trains is free..
8:57 train from rotterdam to schiphol this morning. After 200m train stopped for technical failure. Waiting for 15 min already repair, will take forever...
Late for meetings again, thank you NS
If you hate the ICD so much, why not take a regular train then?

And you are saying that the french can run a train without problems? I have used the about 10 times, every single time i experienced a delay, in one case more then 3 hours.

May i ask where you're from?
Braboz, Because regular trains take 45 min (!) to do the same traject so I am ending up with the same. I have taken trains for 20 years in France so I think I know better than you what is the performance there. We are talking about a 26 min traject not 300-500 km, can you let me know which high speed train with a 40 km distance in France you compare it to? Else you compare apples with pears.
Tonight again delays by the way. As usual.
So I got the message this is an open forum but basically always someone will tell you to stop complaining. Nice.
Reputatie 7
Badge +3
It's an open forum, so people are also allowed to tell you that ;)

But that's just one answer. Other answers were all trying to explain the situation and answer your questions. It's not fair to judge the forum on that.
I found most people are very helpful on this forum and there will always be a few who are not :)

Biggest problem is, the members are not able to fix broken trains. Maybe that's an idea for a new forum-feature 🙂
The trains in francr are different i know that, but like a lot of poeple before me said, we have no trains to do the job. Because AnsalsoBreda sold us crap we have to use older trains that are not op to the job. And because idiotic european rules it takes a long time before we can buy new trains, so it will take some time.

Furthermore, the tracks that are being used for ICD are not the typical dutch tracks, differint kind of power output and a different safety system is used. This makes it complex.

Furthermore the dutch railroads are very busy so when there is a delay on 1 line this can cause problems to other lines. I admit, there are problems that i dont understand why they are there, but that is called bad management.

But continuesly complaining solves nothing, and the only thing you seem to be doing is complaining and complaining and to top it of you are comparing the Netherlands to a third world country just because their are problems with trains? Come on man, wtf?

I'm not going to compare France with The Netherlands, but based on my own judgement, i can say that also in france there are a lot of delays so dont start telling me everything is better overthere.

And if you know the train has a chance of having a delay, why dont you catch a train 15 minutes early? If not, please stop complaining every single time, we get the point and it will be fixed when the new trains arrive i hope.
Reputatie 7
Badge
And if you know the train has a chance of having a delay, why dont you catch a train 15 minutes early?
Because Jossrotterdam wants to complain, doesn't matter what about 😉 He acts like a Dutchman called Henk.
Next time buy niet Keller goedkoop but French technology, more expensive but works for decade hehe. Now again standing to wait for 30 min, train of 8:10 also cancelled so late at my appointment despite planning 30 min margin... then instead of working in 1stt class that cost 600 eur per month I will stand all the journey .... if I even can get inside as half of the country is on the perron too. But for the rest I love your country just the trains are #$%^
*buy lekker goedkoop
Next time buy niet Keller goedkoop but French technology, more expensive but works for decade hehe. Now again standing to wait for 30 min, train of 8:10 also cancelled so late at my appointment despite planning 30 min margin... then instead of working in 1stt class that cost 600 eur per month I will stand all the journey .... if I even can get inside as half of the country is on the perron too. But for the rest I love your country just the trains are #$%^

Because of european law the NS can’t just buy a train they want, it has to go via a european tender. The new Intercity for the Netherlands will be the Alstom Corradia, happy now?
Reputatie 5
Due to these tests, a small number of Intercity direct services is now regularly cancelled.
Really ?! Regularly ? During normal working hours ?
Due to these tests, a small number of Intercity direct services is now regularly cancelled.
Really ?! Regularly ? During normal working hours ?

Yess, or do they need to do it by night when people want to sleep including everybody who is learnig the tracks?
Reputatie 7
Badge +3
People who work at NS should remain very quiet when it comes to complaints about the trains on the High Speed Line. Here's a brief reminder of everything that went wrong so far.

2004: After a tendering process NS orders Fyra trains with Ansaldo-Breda in Italy for operating the services on the HSL. The trains should arrive in 2007.
2005: Ansaldo-Breda warns NS that the trains won't be ready before 2009.
2009: First new trains arrive in NS but are not suitable yet for journeys with passengers. NS plans a stop gap measure service with old rolling stock with a limited top speed of 160 km/h rather than 250 km/h.
2012: In December the new service with new Fyra trains starts.
2013: After safety issues with the new trains they're banned from the tracks in February.

NS (and NMBS) don't have any more suitable rolling stock. More old carriages are converted to run with locos with a top speed of 160 km/h.

NS has had since 2013 to order new trains for operation on the HSL. It's taken NS until October 2017 to finally reveal new trains that won't start operating until 2020! That's 7 (seven!) years after the Fyra fiasco. And these new trains only have a top speed of 200 km/h compared to the original top speed of 250 km/h of the Fyra trains.

All in all NS has made a complete shambles of the train service over the HSL. The best they can offer at the moment is renovated trains dating back to the 1980's with a top speed of 160 km/h. The trains are not really suitable for the line and cause extra track wear. This is a classic example of a project where everything that could go wrong actually went wrong.
Reputatie 7
Badge
People who work at NS should remain very quiet when it comes to complaints about the trains on the High Speed Line. Here's a brief reminder of everything that went wrong so far. (....) This is a classic example of a project where everything that could go wrong actually went wrong.
Don't forget the unbelievable decission of NS to outsource the control on the manufacturing in Italy to one self employed man..:-)
Reputatie 7
Badge +3
New trains specifically designed for this line are ordered. Due to European law, this has te be a public tender. That's why it takes a long time before the correct trains are running on this line. The ICNG (name of the train) is currently being designed, built and tested. They are supposed to be running in 2021.
Maybe you should mention that the first trains were ordered in 2004 and turned out to be a complete failure in 2013 and were banned from the tracks before you mention any new trains that might be running in 2021. Nothing to do with European law but everything with the incompetence at NS.
You forgot a few things in your timeline:
2013 and 2014: NS reviews its rolling stock procurement processes and starts preparing the new tender
2014: tender for the new rolling stock is launched
2016: alstom is named as preferred bidder
2017: design is revealed and the first new train is already in the making.
Reputatie 7
Badge
You forgot too
2012: SNCF offered for sale 8 unused 30 years old highspeed tricourant TGV's of former SSB/SNCF connection
People who work at NS should remain very quiet when it comes to complaints about the trains on the High Speed Line. Here's a brief reminder of everything that went wrong so far.

2004: After a tendering process NS orders Fyra trains with Ansaldo-Breda in Italy for operating the services on the HSL. The trains should arrive in 2007.
2005: Ansaldo-Breda warns NS that the trains won't be ready before 2009.
2009: First new trains arrive in NS but are not suitable yet for journeys with passengers. NS plans a stop gap measure service with old rolling stock with a limited top speed of 160 km/h rather than 250 km/h.
2012: In December the new service with new Fyra trains starts.
2013: After safety issues with the new trains they're banned from the tracks in February.

NS (and NMBS) don't have any more suitable rolling stock. More old carriages are converted to run with locos with a top speed of 160 km/h.

NS has had since 2013 to order new trains for operation on the HSL. It's taken NS until October 2017 to finally reveal new trains that won't start operating until 2020! That's 7 (seven!) years after the Fyra fiasco. And these new trains only have a top speed of 200 km/h compared to the original top speed of 250 km/h of the Fyra trains.

All in all NS has made a complete shambles of the train service over the HSL. The best they can offer at the moment is renovated trains dating back to the 1980's with a top speed of 160 km/h. The trains are not really suitable for the line and cause extra track wear. This is a classic example of a project where everything that could go wrong actually went wrong.


you are also forgetting that in may 2013 NS started a tender for the Sprinter Nieuwe Generatie to replace older Sprinter trains, and this cost money too.

You also forgot that in order to still provide a faster train service NS had to modernise older trains and NS had to buy 45 Bombardier TRAXX to be used for the ICD and other trainservices.

and to top it all off, the Dutch government wanted to abolish the free use of public transport for students by 01-01-2015 and later moved that to 01-01-2016 so NS was expecting a decline in travellers. But then, in may 2014 the government announced that the free use of public transport for students will not be abolished, but instead it will be expanded and available to even more students starting 01-01-2017 so there will be an increase in travelers. And the new Sprinters NS had ordered (118 CAF Civity trains) could NOT be delivered in time so NS had to order 58 Flirt 3 trains from Stadler since they could be delivered starting in 2016.

Furthermore NS Needed to think about replacement of the ICMm trains and making plans for the modernisation of the early VIRM trains. NS decided that the best thing was to replace the ICD trains and the ICMm trains with 1 type of train that could do 200 km/h.

Yes, i agree NS made a lot of mistakes, but you are acting like the only thing NS needed to do was just replace the Fyra. If AnsaldoBreda just made trains that actually worked there would not be as many troubles as there are right now. And furthermore, NS lost a lot of money with those idiotic trains from AnsaldoBreda. And there were still a lot of legal procedures going on untill march of 2014. NS first needed to know how much money they could get for those trains before they could start buying even more trains.
Reputatie 5
Yess, or do they need to do it by night when people want to sleep including everybody who is learnig the tracks?
Paying (!) customers come first ... when you want to learn the tracks do it outside of peak hours. They have more than enough unplanned problems, so why cancel even more trains ??

Reageer