Pathetic intercity direct trains



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49 reacties

Reputatie 3
@kukkie
You may want to check your facts

I am French and lived 21 years in France so I think I know better than you what is performance of the french trains
Official numbers on SNCF.com
> intercity 7 out of 8 trains on time in may 2017 (total 7509 trains), this is 87,5%
This morning 1h30 to do rotterdam to schiphol instead of 26 min. I think counting on 200% of the normal schedule is reasonable margin. 300% or more is ridiculous. Shall I leave a day before my flight and sleep at hotel to arrive on time for a 50 kilometer distance?
Fire incompetent people is not ok? So you are fine having to deal with incompetent people? Is keeping them going to improve something?
Do not dare to called me trumpist, you have no idea what you are talking about
I would be interested to know where I have been impolite as well. I am not offensive, just share my opinion.

Also when your train is cancelled it is not considered as late so no refund. This is why when IC is late until 14min they do not cancel it but when it is 15 min they do. Just to not pay refund to people.

I totally love your country but I think it is acceptable to say few things are really below standards here and Intercity direct is one of them without getting bashed or called a trumpist


1. Cancelled trains have also a refund policy. This is simply not true.
2. The CEO of NS has already another job. Firing the new CEO is no solution.
3. It was possible to travel from Rotterdam to Schiphol in less than one hour by the train Rotterdam-Lelystad Centrum. You have probably token the wrong train.
4. Norms with regard to punctuality in France are looser.
5. The style of your remarks is pretty harsh: 'You may want to check your facts''
6. If the NS continues to do bad on the IC direct, the trains will be run by another organisation in a few years. I agree that it is insufficient now.
7. Schiphol airport advises to be on the airport two or three hours before departing time due to terrorism.

As a reaction to Tamzin:

Ik ben het helemaal met je eens, maar ik bedoelde te zeggen dat het nu geen zin heeft om weer de hele top te ontslaan.
Reputatie 2
'Do not dare to call me a Trumpist' is not an opinion. It's a threat.
'I'm not a Trumpist' is what is considered an opinion here. And only an opinion.
@Cassanda Please stay on topic. That is also the message to the others.
@kukkie
You may want to check your facts

I am French and lived 21 years in France so I think I know better than you what is performance of the french trains
Official numbers on SNCF.com
> intercity 7 out of 8 trains on time in may 2017 (total 7509 trains), this is 87,5%
This morning 1h30 to do rotterdam to schiphol instead of 26 min. I think counting on 200% of the normal schedule is reasonable margin. 300% or more is ridiculous. Shall I leave a day before my flight and sleep at hotel to arrive on time for a 50 kilometer distance?
Fire incompetent people is not ok? So you are fine having to deal with incompetent people? Is keeping them going to improve something?
Do not dare to called me trumpist, you have no idea what you are talking about
I would be interested to know where I have been impolite as well. I am not offensive, just share my opinion.

Also when your train is cancelled it is not considered as late so no refund. This is why when IC is late until 14min they do not cancel it but when it is 15 min they do. Just to not pay refund to people.

I totally love your country but I think it is acceptable to say few things are really below standards here and Intercity direct is one of them without getting bashed or called a trumpist


I'm sick of all the ICD delays and cancellations as well (I use it twice a day, 5 times a week), but thought I'd let you know some things as I noticed the moderator didn't reply to this:

- usually an ICD gets cancelled if it's delayed 15 or more minutes because the ICD runs every 15 minutes between Amsterdam CS and Rotterdam CS. If the next ICD is on time (which, let's be real, doesn't happen that often), both trains will be running right after each other. To avoid this, they'll just cancel the delayed ICD in most cases

- in this case you can still apply for compensation (please do!). Every time your train gets cancelled and it's not due to construction work that's been announced in advance, you can apply for compensation as long as you have checked in at your departure station and checked out at your arrival station (of course you'll need to arrive at least 15 minutes later as planned as well if you planned on traveling with the ICD, but this will be the case). So even if your ICD gets cancelled and you need to take a regular Intercity because of it, you can still apply for compensation.

To do this, visit https://www.ns.nl/formulieren/geld-terug-bij-vertraging.html (only seems to be available in Dutch). Fill out the departure time of the ICD you planned on taking, and select 'yes' for the question asking if you've travelled with the ICD or not. Even though you haven't because the ICD was cancelled, still select yes. Choose 15-29 minutes or 30 or more, depending on what time you've arrived with the regular Intercity you took in comparison to what time you would've arrived if you would've been able to take the ICD as planned. Then, on the following page, select yes for a supplement, and then select Intercity direct toeslag from the drop down menu. If you'd like, you can add a comment during the last step, but I never do and mine always get approved. Don't know if you travel with the ICD often, but hope this helps in case you do. It'd be a shame to not claim a part of your money back!
Reputatie 7
Badge +3
@kukkie
Het gaat niet over het ontslaan van de top maar van de lagen daaronder die verantwoordelijk zijn voor het ICD debacle. Dan praat je over commerciële en technische mensen die het ICD-debacle hebben bedacht en dat hebben verkocht als zijnde een realitische optie.
Reputatie 6
@jossrotterdam
Maybe the many cancelled trains and other disruptions are caused by the fact the network is getting too busy, resulting in getting too many track problems. This in combination with unsuitable trains and a very complex infrastructure on the HSL-line, including the need for trains to regularly switch from highspeed track to conventional track. In my opinion, a HSL-line between Rotterdam and Schiphol is not needed. They should have build a direct, regular line on which a regular intercity train can run at 160 km p/h. It would have caused a lot fewer problems.
Reputatie 7
Badge +3
@jossrotterdam
Maybe the many cancelled trains and other disruptions are caused by the fact the network is getting too busy, resulting in getting too many track problems.

In Japan trains run on busy lines every 2 minutes without the infrastructure falling apart. Even the high-speed Shinkansen lines can accomodate a train every 4 minutes.
Reputatie 6
@Tamzin
You are right. The Japanese have an ultra reliable, quality train system, especially between the larger cities. I wish we could have something similar. Any idea why it works perfectly over there, is it a matter of money invested? ?By the way, do they have rail engineering works almost every weekend as well on those lines?
Badge +3
We have something similar in NL: the HSL Zuid. Unfortunately we have an operator that is completely incapable of running a reliable service for many different reasons. Trying to run the ICD service with unsuitable trains is only one of them.
Hello everyone,
I will like to share my horrible experience with every NS on this forum. Since my over 2 decades of stay in this country, i have never encountered any company in a western country that is not ready or willing to take responsibilties for their mistakes.
On the 19th of July my friend and i took a train from Tilburg ( supposed to bring us ) to Schippol. Just few minutes after departing Breda, the train stopped! they said due to malfuction. In a nutshell, we stayed almost 3 hours in a defected train .. it was dark!
Eventually, the train was towed back to Breda and my friend missed his flight. Also, there were many other international passenger in the train on that fateful night. When we got to Bread, there were police, NS officials waiting and willing to offer help to passengers that may be stranded. We were offered accomodation but since i live in the Netherlands, we had told them that accomodation will be taken care of from our side but what about My friends TICKET?.. The ticket was over 800 u.s dollars! We were asked to file in a claim.
We were given telephone numbers and post contacts. When i got back to my resident, i called the customer service number and choosed the option 'English'.. i heard a voice machine said 'there is one person before me' .. nevertheless, i waited for almost 30 minutes and eventually a lady answered my call AND IMMIDEATELY HUNG UP WHEN I SPOKE ENGLISH TO HER. ( Why give clients the option to choose english when there are no friendly english speaking staffs that are willing to do nightshifts? .
A claim was sent to the given customer service postbus adress as a registered post. Few days ago, we got a reply that they are not responsible and not willing to pay for any damages.
Is this normal , is this rightful ?
Reputatie 7
Badge +3
Few days ago, we got a reply that they are not responsible and not willing to pay for any damages.
Is this normal , is this rightful ?

According to the law NS is not responsible and doesn't need to pay such damages.
Reputatie 6
This is the reason I never travel to Schiphol anymore by Intercity Direct - trains when I have to catch a flight. They are still unreliable and cause too much stress. Take regular trains, a car or book a hotel near Schiphol. And indeed, NS do not need to pay for your loss. They can't be blamed according to the law. But it feels like an injustice, I agree with you Batunde. Your friend loses so much money and have a lot of hassle, NS do not.
@Rene74,
I still can't comprehend why they can't be blamed for a defected train. Then what is the so called claim all about? To fool and fraud people?.. Or just made up for company's regulations sake.
Badge +3
If you risk to miss a flight at Schiphol Airport due to cancelled trains, the NS staff at stations or in the train can arrange for a taxi at no cost.

And yes, EasyJet can be *very* strict when it comes to being on time. The check-in desk closes 45 minutes before departure even if you see the plane in front of you and have no luggage to check in 😞
@Robert B,
The train was not cancelled, we were stuck in the train for almost 3 hours. Train wasn't moving due to technical malfunction and was towed back to Breda.
Reputatie 7
By law, all company's running public transport cannot be held accountable for any damages caused by delays or cancellations. The reason does not matter.

The only thing you have a right to, is a refund of your train ticket when a delay is more than 15 or 30 minutes (IC-direct) or 30 and 60 (regular lines)
With an unnecessary Delay or train cancellation, we would have opted for another means of transportation yo the airport. But in this case we were stuck ( legally held) without our consent in a train for almost 3 hours. I even asked the NS staffs to open the window or the door so that we can just get out of the train to find other means of getting to the airport. Is there no organisation or a law firm that can help on this?.. I think this incompetency has become a normal thing for NS and it needs to be stopped. If they can't deliver quality and accuracy, then they should give path for other organisations / firms to take care of the transportation needs of the people.
Reputatie 6
I do not understand as well why people are not allowed to get out of the train and have to stay inside. It happened to me once years ago. They just said " no we can't allow that, you have to wait". No further explanations were given. After 4 weeks I got a refund of half the ticket price because of a delay more than 60 min. But in fact, if they had let me go out, I could have walked 1 km through the field to the nearest bus stop and could have taken the bus to my destination ( I knew the area). But I was not allowed that and had to wait almost 2 hours inside the train. Too strict safety rules? Do NS think they are responsible when I stumble and get wounded when I get out the train and sue them for that? I still do not know.
Reputatie 7
@Rene74 yes, that's because they are responsible in case they are letting passengers out.

It is strictly forbidden due to safety regulations. Evacuating a train will only be done if the incident leader of ProRail will decide so, or any authorities like the leader of the fireman.

A conductor or train driver can only evacuate a train if a life-threatening situation occurs, like a fire on the train.
Reputatie 6
Maybe can be added to the safety regulatiions that when people want to go out of a broken train, it is at their own risk and NS cannot be held responsible? Just like it says that NS is not responsible for any further damage or loss as a result of catching the destination on time (missing a plane, exams etc)
Reputatie 6
As a result of not getting to the destination on time, I meant of course ?
Reputatie 6
Badge
Yeah I would tell safety to stick their rules somewhere in a very dark place in that case, Rene74.

Also, I agree with all people to avoid IC Direct at any cost if one has a flight to take. Only case in which you can take IC Direct is when you are at Amsterdam or Rotterdam Central station and Schiphol Airport is 1 stop away.
Reputatie 3
@René, its not about safety regulations as its prohibited by law. Only in immediate life threatening situations it's allowed to evacuate the train without the measures that would've been taken during non-life threatening situations. These measures include a lot of third party operations not directly controlled by NS.
@Rene74,
I still can't comprehend why they can't be blamed for a defected train. Then what is the so called claim all about? To fool and fraud people?.. Or just made up for company's regulations sake.


What people have said does not offer the full story with regard to NS being responsible for damages borne due to delays.

In the Netherlands we have a foundation that arbitrates when disputes arise between NS and customers. It is called something like "foundation dispute resolution councils for consumer affairs" (stichting geschillencommissies voor consumentenzaken). The applicable council in this case is the "openbaar vervoer" one.
When there is a dispute you can get yourself to 'a regular court' but this foundation is cheaper and maybe more accessible.

Anyway, I remember there was a similar case once brought before these arbitrators.

Let's pretend now.

So, I want to catch a flight at 14:00 hours.
My flight operator recommends me to be at the airport 3 hours in advance. So I have to get to Schiphol max at 11:00 hours.
I planned the train trip and it would take approx. 40 minutes. Just to be safe I double of 2.5x multiple these minutes and take the departure option closest to this.
So I depart by train at let's say 9:10 hours.

If this is what I have done and optimally I have some way of proving I made attempts to contact NS when I would be in this train that stood still for three hours, in order to provide them with opportunity to get me to Schiphol still as fast as possible, I am good.

So this case was brought for arbitration and if I remember correctly it was decided NS was responsible for the costs of the lost flight tickets due to the delay.

Once again, the arbitrators will probably decide this when it is clear that the duration of the delay is absolutely beyond anything the customer could have taken into account for and NS made no reasonable attempts to get you to Schiphol still.

So I hope this situation is applicable to you, then you might have a case. (www.degeschillencommissie.nl)
I do not know how things are taken care of with regard to translation, maybe these arbitrators only take care of cases in Dutch?

I think NS has to agree to have this organization handle the dispute if you choose to, it is in their contract of carriage.

I hear NS screaming and other customers on this forum "NS is not financially responsible for damages as a result of delays" and this is often true, but there is a but:P I just told you about, NS will not tell you this of course as it is not in their commercial interest.

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