What is wrong for the Intercity between Den Haag to Breda (HSL)?


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Dear NS,

Nowadays, I really suffered from daily commuting trip between Delft to Tilburg and vice versa. I have 10 trips every week.
-In the week before last week, 5 of 10 has more than 30 mins delay (even 1 of them is more than 1 hour delay).
-In last week, 6 of 10 has more than 30 mins delay. (2 of them I asked my colleague in Breda to pick me up at Breda station and drive to my company by car)
Today, I have another 1 hour delay.

I am wondering why there are a lot of problems about HSL? If NS is unable to run the train on time, why did you make the decision of using HSL at end of 2016? (Do not speak about wind problem on the Bridge, NS should evaluate it before start using HSL).

In addition, when I checked the timetable between Delft to Tilburg, I found both NS website and APP does not show the following possible routes:
Intercity(Delft--Rotterdam) & Intercity direct(Rotterdam--Breda) & Intercity (Breda--Tilburg)
Intercity(Delft--Dordrecht) & Sprinter (Dordrecht-- Tilburg)

I know you would explain that the timetable always show the shortest travel route. However, considering the current unstable HSL route, will it be better if NS can show the routes as much as possible?

I attached my claims in the past two weeks for proofing.

16 reacties

Reputatie 7
NS was kinda forced into intergrating the HSL with the normal train net. Most problems are because of the switching between powersource and safety system. Some problems are because there are more safety precautions on the line, and some due to weather.

Starting the first of april, the line will go directly from Den Haag CS to Eindhoven (so no more transfer in Breda). This will probably help alot.
Reputatie 6
Badge +1
Although not given by the NS planner, you are allowed to take all trains on the route Delft-Tilburg, as long as you are travelling in the right direction (e.g. you cannot take Sprinter Delft-Den Haag HS + IC Den Haag HS-Dordrecht because in that case you switch direction).
Badge +3
NS was kinda forced into intergrating the HSL with the normal train net. Most problems are because of the switching between powersource and safety system. Some problems are because there are more safety precautions on the line, and some due to weather.

Starting the first of april, the line will go directly from Den Haag CS to Eindhoven (so no more transfer in Breda). This will probably help alot.


According to independent investigators most problems are indeed caused at the current and safety system switching points. The zones themselves are put in awkward positions, leading to operating errors by the train drivers.
By running through trains rather than changing trains in Breda these problems will not be solved. On every journey there will still be 2 instances where the train driver has to manually switch between the classic line and the High Speed Line, south of Rotterdam and before entering the station at Breda. The only situation that will mitigated is that the connecting train in Breda will not have left before the train from the Hague has arrived. However, at the same this will mean that all passengers east of Breda will now be affected by delayed trains and not just the passengers from The Hague and Rotterdam.
NS was kinda forced into intergrating the HSL with the normal train net. Most problems are because of the switching between powersource and safety system. Some problems are because there are more safety precautions on the line, and some due to weather.

Starting the first of april, the line will go directly from Den Haag CS to Eindhoven (so no more transfer in Breda). This will probably help alot.


According to independent investigators most problems are indeed caused at the current and safety system switching points. The zones themselves are put in awkward positions, leading to operating errors by the train drivers.
By running through trains rather than changing trains in Breda these problems will not be solved. On every journey there will still be 2 instances where the train driver has to manually switch between the classic line and the High Speed Line, south of Rotterdam and before entering the station at Breda. The only situation that will mitigated is that the connecting train in Breda will not have left before the train from the Hague has arrived. However, at the same this will mean that all passengers east of Breda will now be affected by delayed trains and not just the passengers from The Hague and Rotterdam.


Hi iMark, I think you get the point. I know the decision to use HSL was partly due to politicians. However, it should not be an excuse for having such problem now. NS is stated-own company and it should provide the best service to its customer instead of satisfying politicians. I look forward to solving this problem by NS in the following weeks.

In addition, for the timetable from Delft to Tilburg, I know there are multiple routes because I am familiar with all the possibilities. However, just imagine a foreigner or unfamiliar passenger met the delay problems. Should they just wait and stay without knowing there is other possibility at the same time? I met one case that my supplier from Taiwan visited me and they just stayed at Rotterdam and waited for the defected intercity between Rotterdam and Breda. If I did not tell them they can also take train via Dordrecht. They will wait for the whole day in Rotterdam. I am sorry but I have to say it is really disappointing and would damage the reputations of NS as well as the Netherlands in such a case.
Badge +3
The only positive thing I can say that over time the train drivers will get more experience with the difficult switching zones (especially the one near Breda) and the reliability of the rolling stock will improve. We could very well see a major improvement in punctuality pretty soon.

A cousin of mine travels very regularly on the HSL between Schiphol and Rotterdam and she's told me recently that after a lot of problems in 2015, the service has improved a lot in 2016.
The only positive thing I can say that over time the train drivers will get more experience with the difficult switching zones (especially the one near Breda) and the reliability of the rolling stock will improve. We could very well see a major improvement in punctuality pretty soon.

A cousin of mine travels very regularly on the HSL between Schiphol and Rotterdam and she's told me recently that after a lot of problems in 2015, the service has improved a lot in 2016.


Than the question remains: why not wait till all major problems have been tackled, before taking it in service? Why treating passengers as guinea pigs for years and bothering them with all kinds of problems? Just make sure something actually works before you make it part of your service.
Reputatie 3
Although not given by the NS planner, you are allowed to take all trains on the route Delft-Tilburg, as long as you are travelling in the right direction (e.g. you cannot take Sprinter Delft-Den Haag HS + IC Den Haag HS-Dordrecht because in that case you switch direction).

Strictly speaking, the AVR-NS do not allow a travel route that has not been advised by the NS reisplanner. However I would be surprised if anyone would make a problem of it.
Badge +3
Than the question remains: why not wait till all major problems have been tackled, before taking it in service? Why treating passengers as guinea pigs for years and bothering them with all kinds of problems? Just make sure something actually works before you make it part of your service.
That's a very good question. There are no straightforward answers here. Almost everything that could go wrong, has gone wrong.

There has been mismanagement of all parts of the HSL by all parties concerned: The Dutch government, NS, Infraspeed etc. A lot of the current problems can be traced back to the design stage of the HSL. Choosing ERTMS as a signalling system was extremely ambitious and has caused many delays. There were also many problems with the tendering of the services on the HSL. After NS had 'won' the tender there was the problem of them ordering trains that were delivered years late and then didn't work, with no clear alternatives available. The current service levels are a direct result of the problems with the Fyra trains, dating back to December 2012.

We're now at the stage where finally some progress is made and that there are more and more trains running on the HSL. Because of all the earlier tendering problems, the government basically forced NS to run more trains on the HSL. In hindsight, more testing and training was needed before starting the service from Den Haag to Breda. But I don't think NS could spare more train drivers for training purposes, especially because in other parts of the country train drivers were needed to train to drive other new trains. That couldn't have come at a worse time.
Reputatie 1
Again no trains today in the morning and as we speak!
Reputatie 7
Het station is ontruimd ivm verdacht pakketje..
Reputatie 1
Het station is ontruimd ivm verdacht pakketje..

Inherent
In this week, I have another 5 out of 10 trips (communing from home to work place) delay until this morning. Speechless... Now I am wondering whether there is a customer organization who can be the representative of the passengers in this route to ask for a BIG compensation. Although I prefer a reliable timetable than some compensation, I think it is still good for NS or ProRail to know this lesson and make sure it will not happen in the future. Just my ideas...
Than the question remains: why not wait till all major problems have been tackled, before taking it in service? Why treating passengers as guinea pigs for years and bothering them with all kinds of problems? Just make sure something actually works before you make it part of your service.
That's a very good question. There are no straightforward answers here. Almost everything that could go wrong, has gone wrong.

There has been mismanagement of all parts of the HSL by all parties concerned: The Dutch government, NS, Infraspeed etc. A lot of the current problems can be traced back to the design stage of the HSL. Choosing ERTMS as a signalling system was extremely ambitious and has caused many delays. There were also many problems with the tendering of the services on the HSL. After NS had 'won' the tender there was the problem of them ordering trains that were delivered years late and then didn't work, with no clear alternatives available. The current service levels are a direct result of the problems with the Fyra trains, dating back to December 2012.

We're now at the stage where finally some progress is made and that there are more and more trains running on the HSL. Because of all the earlier tendering problems, the government basically forced NS to run more trains on the HSL. In hindsight, more testing and training was needed before starting the service from Den Haag to Breda. But I don't think NS could spare more train drivers for training purposes, especially because in other parts of the country train drivers were needed to train to drive other new trains. That couldn't have come at a worse time.


So, to make a long story short, due to poor judgement and mismanagement from all parties involved, the customer now pays the price. Dordrecht has lost the direct Intercity to Brabant and Limburg, many connections in that area have deteriorated, and a reliable intercity-srvice that has functioned very well for decades (Venlo-The Hague) was sacrificed. Well, thank you.
Reputatie 2
Het station is ontruimd ivm verdacht pakketje..

This was in the afternoon of March 9th. Timbreda refers to the morning and this was caused by a defect train. Same as this morning (March 10th), again most IC trains to Rotterdam out of service due to a defect train.
Reputatie 1
And again No trains!!! Thank you NS for messing up work- and family live!
I understand your frustration Tim, but i can't promise you that there won't be any problems in the future. I really hope it will get better.

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